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	<title>Comments for Surprises in Programs and their Evaluations</title>
	<atom:link href="http://evaluationuncertainty.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com</link>
	<description>Jonny Morell&#039;s take on evaluation and evaluation surprises</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 17:22:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Kim Norris’ comment on Jam’s original Evaltalk post about population ecology and program sustainability by jamorell</title>
		<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2012/05/05/kim-norris-comment-on-jams-original-evaltalk-post-about-population-ecology-and-program-sustainability/#comment-521</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamorell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 17:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evaluationuncertainty.com/?p=331#comment-521</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Kim. Can you post some references? Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kim. Can you post some references? Thanks.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mary Ann Scheirer’s comment on Jam’s original Evaltalk post about population ecology and program sustainability by jamorell</title>
		<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2012/05/05/mary-ann-scheirers-comment-on-jams-original-evaltalk-post-about-population-ecology-and-program-sustainability/#comment-520</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamorell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 17:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evaluationuncertainty.com/?p=325#comment-520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Marry Ann, The reason I am so intrigued by all this is that while the ecology is different, the constructs used to explain behavior are the same. For instance, “stable funding sources” are not of much interest to bacteria or baboons, but “resource availability” is of interest to bacteria, baboons, and obesity prevention programs. The question for me is whether the equations used to explain resources for the beasties can be applied to the obesity programs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Marry Ann, The reason I am so intrigued by all this is that while the ecology is different, the constructs used to explain behavior are the same. For instance, “stable funding sources” are not of much interest to bacteria or baboons, but “resource availability” is of interest to bacteria, baboons, and obesity prevention programs. The question for me is whether the equations used to explain resources for the beasties can be applied to the obesity programs.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Nancy Lathan’s comment on Jam’s original Evaltalk post about population ecology and program sustainability by jamorell</title>
		<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2012/05/05/nancy-lathans-comment-on-jams-original-evaltalk-post-about-population-ecology-and-program-sustainability/#comment-519</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamorell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 17:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evaluationuncertainty.com/?p=322#comment-519</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Nancy, I don’t know the article but their book is great. Not an easy read, but great.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nancy, I don’t know the article but their book is great. Not an easy read, but great.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on David Colton’s comment on Jam’s original Evaltalk post about population ecology and program sustainability by jamorell</title>
		<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2012/05/05/david-coltons-comment-on-jams-original-evaltalk-post-about-population-ecology-and-program-sustainability/#comment-518</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamorell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 17:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evaluationuncertainty.com/?p=319#comment-518</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Dave, 
1) I like this idea but don’t have the cycles to make the table. If anyone wants to take a shot at it, go for it. 
2) There is a hint of what you are suggesting in Odette Segal’s post. That might be a good place to start. 
3) One hesitation I do have is the assumption that the mapping can in fact be done. That implies a commensurability across the two domains that I’m not sure exists. In fact, if it did exist, there would be no need to think of how PE could be applied at all. On the other hand, I can see a lot of value in seeing where there is overlap.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dave,<br />
1) I like this idea but don’t have the cycles to make the table. If anyone wants to take a shot at it, go for it.<br />
2) There is a hint of what you are suggesting in Odette Segal’s post. That might be a good place to start.<br />
3) One hesitation I do have is the assumption that the mapping can in fact be done. That implies a commensurability across the two domains that I’m not sure exists. In fact, if it did exist, there would be no need to think of how PE could be applied at all. On the other hand, I can see a lot of value in seeing where there is overlap.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Meghan Guinnee’s comment on Jam’s original Evaltalk post about population ecology and program sustainability by jamorell</title>
		<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2012/05/05/meghan-guinnees-comment-on-jams-original-evaltalk-post-about-population-ecology-and-program-sustainability/#comment-517</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamorell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 17:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evaluationuncertainty.com/?p=310#comment-517</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Meghann –
	PE has plenty to say about changing environments, so I don’t see that as an barrier. As for practical value though, I’m with you 100%. I am not at all sure there is any. One reason is the population as opposed to individual level of analysis issue. The second is that beyond simple heuristics, the only way that I know to apply PE is with lots of data (real and projected) pumped through quite a bit of mathematics. I don’t see anyone in my business as having the data. It’s a little like my hesitation about using complex systems in evaluation. Outside of computer based agent-based modeling, application is limited. (On the other hand, see Odette Segal’s and Kim Norris’ comments.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Meghann –<br />
	PE has plenty to say about changing environments, so I don’t see that as an barrier. As for practical value though, I’m with you 100%. I am not at all sure there is any. One reason is the population as opposed to individual level of analysis issue. The second is that beyond simple heuristics, the only way that I know to apply PE is with lots of data (real and projected) pumped through quite a bit of mathematics. I don’t see anyone in my business as having the data. It’s a little like my hesitation about using complex systems in evaluation. Outside of computer based agent-based modeling, application is limited. (On the other hand, see Odette Segal’s and Kim Norris’ comments.)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Megan Greeson’s comment on Jam’s original Evaltalk post about population ecology and program sustainability by jamorell</title>
		<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2012/05/05/megan-greesons-comment-on-jams-original-evaltalk-post-about-population-ecology-and-program-sustainability/#comment-516</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamorell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 17:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evaluationuncertainty.com/?p=307#comment-516</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Megan. You have identified the precise reason why I PE may not be useful as a framework for understanding program sustainability. Namely, population ecology cares not a whit about whether any particular organism survives or not.PE is concerned with populations and species as the level of analysis. It may care about death rates, but not about the death of any particular member of the group. So what’s in it for us evaluators?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Megan. You have identified the precise reason why I PE may not be useful as a framework for understanding program sustainability. Namely, population ecology cares not a whit about whether any particular organism survives or not.PE is concerned with populations and species as the level of analysis. It may care about death rates, but not about the death of any particular member of the group. So what’s in it for us evaluators?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jess Chandler’s comment on Jam’s original Evaltalk post about population ecology and program sustainability by jamorell</title>
		<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2012/05/05/jess-chandlers-comment-on-jams-original-evaltalk-post-about-population-ecology-and-program-sustainability/#comment-515</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamorell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 16:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evaluationuncertainty.com/?p=300#comment-515</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Jess. You actually know something about the subject. Could you provide some more details on what you did?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jess. You actually know something about the subject. Could you provide some more details on what you did?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Azenet Book Club &#8211; Life Cycles, Rigid evaluation requirements, and Implementation theory by jamorell</title>
		<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2012/03/09/azenet-book-club-life-cycles-rigid-evaluation-requirements-and-implementation-theory/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamorell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 23:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2012/03/09/azenet-book-club-life-cycles-rigid-evaluation-requirements-and-implementation-theory/#comment-451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Introduction&lt;/strong&gt;
This is the kind of question that is hard to answer in the abstract because specifics matter so much. I have dealt with problems like this in my practice, and I always need to learn the gory details. For instance, some of the suggestions I’m about to give make the assumption that the evaluators have a close relationship with their project officers and with a variety of other stakeholders. I have no idea if this assumption is correct in your situation. But I never let little things like ignorance stop me. I’ll try anyway. 

It seems to me that the kinds of problems you are describing fit into my discussion of “incorrect assumptions early in the evaluation life cycle” (pages 149 – 154.) The most relevant case is #1, where the sponsor insisted on an inappropriate outcome measure. 

&lt;strong&gt;Stages and Life Cycles&lt;/strong&gt;
Personally I’m not knowledgeable about implementation stage theories for the kinds of programs you are dealing with. None of the references I have on page 59 are about social or educational programs, although I’m sure there is a big social science literature on this topic. Actually, I see a weakness in my book that I don’t delve into what the various life cycle stages are, and discuss how they relate to evaluation surprise. I may deal with this lack if Guilford ever sees the wisdom of asking me for a second edition.

I talk about concepts such as “start up phases”, and “stability” using the “I’ll know it when I see it” measurement criterion. Not the best measurement system for a guy in my business. Still, I can think of intuitive criteria that may be useful. For instance: Did they just receive funding and are still getting organized? Are they hiring a lot of staff or have the folks that work there been around for a while? Do they have working relationships with closely related systems? (For instance, if schools are supposed to refer to health care clinics, is the referral mechanism in place.) Have the services provided stayed more or less consistent for some time? Has the content of the services been changing a lot even though there is no obvious change in the operating environment?

All that said, I don’t think your problem is lack of an implementation theory. I’m sure that if you went shopping you would find one.  The real problem is whether you have any opportunity to collect the necessary data. 

&lt;strong&gt;Data&lt;/strong&gt; 
Assuming that you are comfortable with a measure of maturity, how would the various programs stack up? Are they all in the start-up phase, or are there some that are legitimately ready for some kind of outcome measure? It might be worth looking at this because the kinds of problems they have may be different. For instance, a mature program may have a problem because you are boxed into collecting inappropriate outcome measures, while a start-up may mean that the whole idea of measuring outcome makes no sense.

I’d bet that in addition to the funder, there are other stakeholders who have an interest in the evaluation, and that their interests align more with what you know needs to be done than do the funder’s requirements. Can you design the evaluation in such a way as to try to meet those needs? That would legitimize other kinds of data collection. I don’t know what position your project officers would take on this, but it’s hard for me to believe that they would be unsympathetic.  I realize that it’s easy to suggest more data collection and hard to pay for it. But it may be possible, particularly if you could justify it as a needed precursor to getting the data the funder is asking you for. Or, maybe you could get some of those other stakeholders to kick a bit of money into the pot. You may not need a lot because you already have the evaluation mechanism up and running.

Maybe another possibility is to get your funders to support you in the collection of other data. After all, your project officers must know that they are putting you in a tough position. They are probably trapped themselves in a web or regulations and policy that is making them pass those evaluation requirements on to you. Especially if you could bring other stakeholder to the table asking for other types of data collection, you might get support for getting that data.

&lt;strong&gt;Comparison Groups and Other Hard to Implement Designs&lt;/strong&gt;
I don’t know what you mean by “hard to implement” but I am sympathetic to the difficulty of implementing comparison group studies. (I am also a big fan of comparison groups. Having some in an evaluation I am doing is saving us because there are some strong confounds in the experimental group.) Still, there are designs you may be able to use. What about a no-control group interrupted time series? Or even if you can’t go back far in time, a simple pre-post comparison with valid and reliable data can go a long way to making some reasonable causal inference. 

Is there any chance that you are measuring outcomes for which there is national data to compare against? (For instance, I’m thinking of the standardized tests that are given in all the states across the globe.) I realize that you funders may not like these designs, but they can be worthwhile. How much wiggle room do you have in negotiating the design?

&lt;strong&gt;Is the Evidence Based Practice Any Good?&lt;/strong&gt;
I hate to bring this up, but it may be worth pondering. How much faith do people have that the “evidence based practice” is based on enough evidence to believe the program should have the desired outcomes? If nothing else, looking at this question may help set expectations. In the best of all worlds though, the programs you are evaluating would add to the knowledge of evidence based practice, and thus have a longer term impact on the kind of programming your funders are pushing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Introduction</strong><br />
This is the kind of question that is hard to answer in the abstract because specifics matter so much. I have dealt with problems like this in my practice, and I always need to learn the gory details. For instance, some of the suggestions I’m about to give make the assumption that the evaluators have a close relationship with their project officers and with a variety of other stakeholders. I have no idea if this assumption is correct in your situation. But I never let little things like ignorance stop me. I’ll try anyway. </p>
<p>It seems to me that the kinds of problems you are describing fit into my discussion of “incorrect assumptions early in the evaluation life cycle” (pages 149 – 154.) The most relevant case is #1, where the sponsor insisted on an inappropriate outcome measure. </p>
<p><strong>Stages and Life Cycles</strong><br />
Personally I’m not knowledgeable about implementation stage theories for the kinds of programs you are dealing with. None of the references I have on page 59 are about social or educational programs, although I’m sure there is a big social science literature on this topic. Actually, I see a weakness in my book that I don’t delve into what the various life cycle stages are, and discuss how they relate to evaluation surprise. I may deal with this lack if Guilford ever sees the wisdom of asking me for a second edition.</p>
<p>I talk about concepts such as “start up phases”, and “stability” using the “I’ll know it when I see it” measurement criterion. Not the best measurement system for a guy in my business. Still, I can think of intuitive criteria that may be useful. For instance: Did they just receive funding and are still getting organized? Are they hiring a lot of staff or have the folks that work there been around for a while? Do they have working relationships with closely related systems? (For instance, if schools are supposed to refer to health care clinics, is the referral mechanism in place.) Have the services provided stayed more or less consistent for some time? Has the content of the services been changing a lot even though there is no obvious change in the operating environment?</p>
<p>All that said, I don’t think your problem is lack of an implementation theory. I’m sure that if you went shopping you would find one.  The real problem is whether you have any opportunity to collect the necessary data. </p>
<p><strong>Data</strong><br />
Assuming that you are comfortable with a measure of maturity, how would the various programs stack up? Are they all in the start-up phase, or are there some that are legitimately ready for some kind of outcome measure? It might be worth looking at this because the kinds of problems they have may be different. For instance, a mature program may have a problem because you are boxed into collecting inappropriate outcome measures, while a start-up may mean that the whole idea of measuring outcome makes no sense.</p>
<p>I’d bet that in addition to the funder, there are other stakeholders who have an interest in the evaluation, and that their interests align more with what you know needs to be done than do the funder’s requirements. Can you design the evaluation in such a way as to try to meet those needs? That would legitimize other kinds of data collection. I don’t know what position your project officers would take on this, but it’s hard for me to believe that they would be unsympathetic.  I realize that it’s easy to suggest more data collection and hard to pay for it. But it may be possible, particularly if you could justify it as a needed precursor to getting the data the funder is asking you for. Or, maybe you could get some of those other stakeholders to kick a bit of money into the pot. You may not need a lot because you already have the evaluation mechanism up and running.</p>
<p>Maybe another possibility is to get your funders to support you in the collection of other data. After all, your project officers must know that they are putting you in a tough position. They are probably trapped themselves in a web or regulations and policy that is making them pass those evaluation requirements on to you. Especially if you could bring other stakeholder to the table asking for other types of data collection, you might get support for getting that data.</p>
<p><strong>Comparison Groups and Other Hard to Implement Designs</strong><br />
I don’t know what you mean by “hard to implement” but I am sympathetic to the difficulty of implementing comparison group studies. (I am also a big fan of comparison groups. Having some in an evaluation I am doing is saving us because there are some strong confounds in the experimental group.) Still, there are designs you may be able to use. What about a no-control group interrupted time series? Or even if you can’t go back far in time, a simple pre-post comparison with valid and reliable data can go a long way to making some reasonable causal inference. </p>
<p>Is there any chance that you are measuring outcomes for which there is national data to compare against? (For instance, I’m thinking of the standardized tests that are given in all the states across the globe.) I realize that you funders may not like these designs, but they can be worthwhile. How much wiggle room do you have in negotiating the design?</p>
<p><strong>Is the Evidence Based Practice Any Good?</strong><br />
I hate to bring this up, but it may be worth pondering. How much faith do people have that the “evidence based practice” is based on enough evidence to believe the program should have the desired outcomes? If nothing else, looking at this question may help set expectations. In the best of all worlds though, the programs you are evaluating would add to the knowledge of evidence based practice, and thus have a longer term impact on the kind of programming your funders are pushing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Arizona Evaluation Book Group &#8211; Reading The Book by jamorell</title>
		<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2012/03/09/arizona-evaluation-book-group-reading-the-book/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamorell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evaluationuncertainty.com/?p=269#comment-450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, this is interesting. (And maybe a bit embarrassing.) When the idea for this dialogue With Azenet was first hatched, I thought to myself – easy, duck soup. After all, I wrote the book, so I must have a deep understanding of what’s in it. HA! A  few things are going on. First, one forgets. Second, the way the book is constructed, there are rich connections among its parts. Third, I have been thinking a lot since the book came out,  I have done more evaluations, and I have seen many more evaluations done by others. What I have not done is take the time to step back, ponder it all, and consider how all that has affected my thinking about evaluation surprise. So for me, this is turning into a much harder, and much more interesting exercise that I had anticipated. I do hope that all of us get something out if it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, this is interesting. (And maybe a bit embarrassing.) When the idea for this dialogue With Azenet was first hatched, I thought to myself – easy, duck soup. After all, I wrote the book, so I must have a deep understanding of what’s in it. HA! A  few things are going on. First, one forgets. Second, the way the book is constructed, there are rich connections among its parts. Third, I have been thinking a lot since the book came out,  I have done more evaluations, and I have seen many more evaluations done by others. What I have not done is take the time to step back, ponder it all, and consider how all that has affected my thinking about evaluation surprise. So for me, this is turning into a much harder, and much more interesting exercise that I had anticipated. I do hope that all of us get something out if it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Evaluating the relationship between development and democracy. Comments sought on draft of a presentation by Document Management</title>
		<link>http://evaluationuncertainty.com/2011/04/21/evaluating-the-relationship-between-development-and-democracy-comments-sought-on-draft-of-a-presentation/#comment-426</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Document Management]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 23:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evaluationuncertainty.com/?p=238#comment-426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Sites we Like...&lt;/strong&gt;

[...] Every once in a while we choose blogs that we read. Listed below are the latest sites that we choose [...]...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Sites we Like&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>[...] Every once in a while we choose blogs that we read. Listed below are the latest sites that we choose [...]&#8230;</p>
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